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JLKShorthairs Westport,wa
 MH Posts:143


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| 11/08/2009 1:04 PM |
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Abby had we let her would have been out 100+ yards easy hunting to find birds. She really gets into it and goes way out how far out should I let her go before I reign her in or should I just let her hunt as far out as she wants? I dont want to suppress or make her feel like she needs my permission to hunt but also wanted to make sure I am not letting her run too big. I am wanting to do real life hunting (pheasant, grouse and possiably ducks) and hunt tests but am also considering field trails but not sure what all in involved in field trails. Do you need your own horse for field trails I read somewhere forget where now that everyone is on horseback is that true?
Jana |
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Texas Belle Austin, TX
 MH Posts:4852


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| 11/08/2009 4:42 PM |
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First, I would let her have fun right now and let her find birds. Don't worry about distance. As for HT and FT I haven't had any problems with distance with Ringo. He covers allot of ground fast, but always moves with and in front of me. Since he has gotten older he is much more serious about the birds and ignores the other dogs, people, etc on the course. He also is much more aware of where I am and stays out front and moves to my front when I change directions. That just came with continued work in the fields, obedience work and maturity. He has also adjusted his distance a bit and does not work nearly as far in front of me now as he used to. He probably works 100 - 150 feet out sometimes more. I can also adjust the speed that he works by slowing my pace. If I stop or slow way down he will stay pretty much working the area I stopped or slowed down in. I do the walking FT, so I don't need a horse. HT are all on foot so don't need a horse there either. If you want to know more of what is involved in both HT and FT check out the AKC website. They have the rule books online or you can order them, they are not very expensive. Be sure you get the ones for Pointing Breeds. By the way Ringo and I are learning together as he is the first dog I have ever done any hunting stuff with. He just got his JH and we have started work on his MH (probably going to skip the SH). I have a trainer who works with Ringo during the week and then I go up on weekends and the trainer trains me and teaches me how to handle Ringo. This works good from me because I live in the city and don't have easy access to land or birds. My plan is to get Ringo's MH and maybe continue to do FTs. I also plan to go bird hunting next year with Ringo. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo) and the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo)
Yellow Rose GSPs

"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." --Plato
"..It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds.." --Samuel Adams |
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JLKShorthairs Westport,wa
 MH Posts:143


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| 11/08/2009 9:03 PM |
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Ok thanks Bev I am doing this all on my own no trainer anywhere near me but I do have a few spots I can take her to get her on birds unfortunatly the main pheasant area I cant right now till next year as I dont have a hunters ed card and need that to get a hunting licence the others are not known populations of birds and have trained retrievers but never pointing dogs so wasnt sure how far to let her go out there. Will just let her be a dog and find birds and not worry about distance. So I am thinking of maybe entering her in a field trail (the puppy or derby class) in febuary but wasnt sure if I should or just stick to hunt tests for now. I would love to put a championship in conformation and a field trail championship on her. I know I am dreaming big LOL. |
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Texas Belle Austin, TX
 MH Posts:4852


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oneal3337 Great Falls, Mt
 JH Posts:34

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| 11/08/2009 9:52 PM |
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| How far out depends on the cover your hunting. On the praries here in MT our dogs often work 200-300 yards out. Sometimes further. You can't always work into the wind so if the winds at your back you want your dog to go out a ways and work back towards you into the wind. This works well on pheasants that run forever. Some of the fields you'll hunt are several square miles. Trust your dogs to hold point and let them cover all that ground you can't. That's what they're bred for. You'll find when you get into thicker cover they'll adjust and stay closer. Remember, it's much easier to teach them to work closer to you then it is to teach them to range out once they think they are suppose to stay in close. Have fun and watch them run! |
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RyanGSP
 MH Posts:288

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| 11/08/2009 11:36 PM |
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Posted By oneal3337 on 11/08/2009 9:52 PM
How far out depends on the cover your hunting. On the praries here in MT our dogs often work 200-300 yards out. Sometimes further. You can't always work into the wind so if the winds at your back you want your dog to go out a ways and work back towards you into the wind. This works well on pheasants that run forever. Some of the fields you'll hunt are several square miles. Trust your dogs to hold point and let them cover all that ground you can't. That's what they're bred for. You'll find when you get into thicker cover they'll adjust and stay closer. Remember, it's much easier to teach them to work closer to you then it is to teach them to range out once they think they are suppose to stay in close. Have fun and watch them run!
Couldnt have said it better myself.
Personally I like a big running dog in the open and a close one when hunting the thick stuff. Only you can determine how far you want her. If you dont want her as far as she is running reign her in. |
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pixie bee
 MH Posts:2504


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| 11/09/2009 7:41 AM |
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You pose a tricky question. Mostly, I feel the range should be based on what the hunter feels comfortable with along with how independent AND how cooperative the dog is. Cover is important and a dog will work better if they understand that thicker is closer and vice-versa.Most dogs do need to be taught this tho and this is done thru going out with the dog often and reminding them to stay close or to stretch out.It's important to know what your dog's natural range is. One of my dogs is a 400 yarder and the other is no more than 100 yards.But,it is important to know that with a good dog scent will draw them out much further,and a good dog will open up if there is no scent and they are searching.I do not want my dog out more than 100' when grouse hunting. We would never get a shot off if they are out further. This season we haven't got one point,we have found birds but they are flushing 100+'ahead of the dogs,and the dogs are going slow and with purpose.They will have to learn to point much further away.This is one way the birds teach the dog.Before the season we had several grouse points and the birds held (dogs were pointing only 15' away) until I approached but they are real spooky now. The woodcock are also extremely spooky and we have not had one point but several contacts. We have been pond jumpimg and the mallards and wood duck (wood duck are extremely spooky) are flushing 50' from us and they can't even see us. For this type of hunting we down the dog about 50 or so feet away and approach. Quiet and ready is the key for any wild bird hunting. I don't keep 'quiet' when I hunt my dogs - but I don't hack them either. The dog must know that he is with me and not me with him. Hunt with a confident dog and you will quickly realize they believe you should be right behind them wherever they go - NOT! There was a run away dog yesterday in the woods and thanks to my dogs working close and obeying we avoided a nasty encounter - the dog actually got aggressive with our dogs. My point in this long post is that you need to have your dog in a range that is productive and comfortable with you and the dog should be handling the way YOU want not the dog calling all the shots - if you change direction or want to hunt another area the dog needs to be aware of this w/o you having to rein him in first. Francine |
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Be the type of woman that when you wake up each morning and put your feet on the floor the Devil says - "Oh Crap, She's Up!"
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genedit.php?id=2229 http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genedit.php?id=2230
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Jeff
Posts:14

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| 11/12/2009 10:44 AM |
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Pixie Bee had it right, it depends on what and where you are hunting, I hunt Grouse in up state Pa. and where I hunt you better have a dog that stays close, and as a hunter you must be quiet and pay attention to every move the dog makes, those Grouse don't wait around before there gone, our dog stays around 100'/150' out and it seems to be o.k. alot of places you can't see any farther, As Pheasants go, all we have is stocked birds on game lands that would rather run than fly,and alot of hunters, you also have to keep your dog close because it seems there is always hunters (and dogs) every couple hundred yards, then you have to worry about your dog getting in fights. Good luck and have a good hunting season
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TessaGA Georgia
 MH Posts:2086


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| 12/02/2009 9:21 AM |
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You got some good responses from the experienced people, I am just a beginner and am training for HT not actually hunting, so far mostly quail, sometimes dense cover but not always, no wide open prairies. Tessa goes out about 100 + yards and in a hurry, and I am comfortable with that range as I can still see her most of the time and she can see me. I taught Tessa to turn on two whistle blows and/or hand signal, and that may be one way to "curb" how far out Abby goes, if that's what you want to do, by giving the dog a signal to search in another direction instead of letting her go further or calling her back in. Also, when Tessa stops in the field and looks back at me, I try to acknowledge that, like by waving my hat. If I walk on doing that, or blow the whistle once, she will resume her hunt. If I give a hand signal, she goes off in that direction. Occasionally, I call her back in to practice the recall. Started working towards whoaing her from afar. The tricky part is that you want to avoid overhandling the dog. I let Tessa do her thing mostly and just follow along and direct her every so often. When we started out, I was startled by her range and independence so in an effort to promote her staying connected to me I praised her every time she returned to me on her own. I was advised not to do that too often, or I may shorten her range. You really need to strike a balance and also beware of your timing (obviously don't want to direct the dog if it's clearly on a scent). So far, everyone that sees Tessa work a field likes her range, desire, independence and boldness. I was lucky that I didn't wreck her there However, she may hunt too close or too far for some other scenarios as described in the other responses above. I don't know how she would do in a different set-up. |
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To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
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RyanGSP
 MH Posts:288

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| 12/02/2009 7:21 PM |
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I wouldnt be encouraging a dog to stop and look at me when it should be hunting. They see you all the time the dog shouldnt have to stop to look at you, your dog will be docked points if this happens too much in the higher levels of testing and trials. It shows a lack of independence in a dog if its looking to you for direction. A good dog knows where the birds are and keeps one eye on you. When your body turns left the dog should cast to the left. The only time we use hand signals is if we are standing still but want a dog to cover an area otherwise they read our bodies quiet well.
I have both here, my setter is always looking at me to see what way I am going where as my GSP it apprears he could care less about what I am doing. Yet both dogs cast and quarter infront quiet well. The GSP's style is much nicer to hunt over because 1 I dont need to be waving my arms around, and 2 it looks pretty good when you can just walk and your dog seems to know your very next move. That will score you points with judges.
Whistles are a good way of reigning a dog in because the dog can hear them in even the strongest winds. |
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TessaGA Georgia
 MH Posts:2086


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| 12/03/2009 6:42 AM |
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Just be clear, I did say sparingly...it's not that I'm waving my arms and directing traffic all the time. Neither is she stopping to look at me all the time either - I would never encourage that. I once watched a JH brace and one handler was directing his dog the entire time - non-stop. Go here, go there, come back, I couldn't believe it. The dog didn't listen either. Not sure what their score was - I reckon the dog found some birds but the trainability score may have suffered. At any rate, for me, that was a huge turnoff. |
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To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
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JLKShorthairs Westport,wa
 MH Posts:143


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| 12/07/2009 2:55 AM |
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Thanks everyone for the great advice I am just kinda letting her be and not handling her too much but if she does get too far ahead (out of site) I call her back to me but otherwise let her hunt. We have only had a chance to take her out a couple of times so havent got a ton of work in yet and I am sure just taking her out we will click and she will read me better. Thanks again everyone for the advice and input I really appriciate it I feel like I am starting new coming from retrievers to pointers. Jana |
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