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Subject: Teaching "come"
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SplatUser is Offline
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09/01/2009 7:51 AM  

Blitz is 9 weeks old.  We aren't planning on really hunting with him (maybe just for fun -- since we have never hunted) so we taught him sit and he gets that pretty good now.  He has to sit to get his food too.  The stay part is still in progress.

When we are outside (on the farm no fencing except for pasture) he runs around and for the most part stays close by.  He is getting braver now and is testing his boundries.  When we call him to come back "Blitz Come" he sometimes comes right away and other times runs away (the little devil).  When he goes where he isn't supose to we tell him "out" in a deep voice and that works pretty good.  But when we call him to come we try and sound happy and pat our legs and stuff like that.

I do plan on taking him to obiedience training when he is old enough like after all his puppy shots (his last one is end of this week).  So I am sure the classes will help, but till then any ideas on how to teach the "come" before he gets out of control?  Is the "come" taught best with a leash?

I have started him on the leash a little.  He wears a collar all the time.  The first day I put the leash on we worked on him not chewing it.  Then he got mad at the leash and started pulling and flopping around like a fish out of water.  However the second time I put it on he did great.  I put it on and let him drag it around and make sure he isn't biting or chewing it.  Then I picked it up and had him walk with me keeping the leash loose.  If is got tight I would stop walking and try to call him closer and when he got closer I would give him a treat and we would walk more.  We only do this for about 5 minutes and then his attention is ready for something else.



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pixie beeUser is Offline

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09/01/2009 8:34 AM  
There are a few ways to teach the command,all of them work. but to be honest,unless your dog is soft it will take a while to have a 90% or better recall. I don't use 100% grade when referring to dogs. I would continue with what you are doing b/c at this age it isn't fair to the dog to add pressure. Just don't give a command that you know he will refuse. If you have no way to gently reel him in don't give the come command. Dogs pick up bad habits waaay quicker then the good ones. Such baaad dogs!
Teach first, then force, then reinforce. All age and temperment appropiate.
BTW, when I say force - force does not imply an amount,this is up to the trainer to decide.


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"Oh Crap, She's Up!"

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SplatUser is Offline
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09/01/2009 10:39 AM  
I was worried by saying "Blitz come" and him obviously not knowing it yet it would ruin the command...So I was hoping by doing what I have been doing is ok. I try to keep treats (dry kibble) with me so that when he does come I can give him the treat, but sometimes I don't so then I say good boy and pet him. If I say come 2 or 3 times and he doesn't I just go over and pick him up and bring him where I want him. I am not sure that is good cuz sometimes he runs from me.


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FrancisMcGeeUser is Offline
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09/01/2009 11:11 AM  

Like Francine mentioned, I would not say the command and have it be refused.  If you say "come", say it only once then start reeling him in on the check cord.  9 weeks might be a bit early for this...I would only say come if he's already interested in you, and you're guaranteed to get him to come running in your direction.

At about 3 months, I put a check cord on my pup and had her drag it around (get the really stiff cord that won't get snagged on stuff and for safety, only do this when you are around).  I let her play and play and play...then I grab the cord (no tension) and say the command "COME".  If she doesn't come running, I start pulling.  Then LOTS of praise when she "arrives" to me.  Then I release and let her go play again.  I probably repeated this hundreds of times.

I rarely ever say come (even now at 10 months) without a way to reinforce it (ecollar, check cord, etc).  She still drags the check cord when we are training.  If I can't grab the check cord, I will make a lot of racket (clapping, etc) to get her to come my way.

Hope this helps.  Remember, your pup is still pretty young.  You can start the command, but I still wouldn't say it without a way to ensure compliance.

Texas BelleUser is Offline
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09/01/2009 11:18 AM  

You are doing fine. As pixie said he is still a puppy. She is right about a giving a command you can't enforce. Also, by chasing him to catch him you are creating a favorite game with dogs, the chase game. The best way to get him to come if he is off leash is to whoop or holler (get his attention) and run the opposite direction (now the chase game is he is chasing you), then stop and kneel down. He will probably be all over you. Don't give the come command if there is a chance he won't come, and never repeat a command. Dogs can count and he will soon learn that you do not mean it until the third or fourth time you give the command. Make coming to you a game and always always reward the return to you. Never reprimand him when he comes to you even if he has been bad and run away from you first. Remember dogs live in the moment so anything you do will be associated with his most recent activity. Good luck on your training.


Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo) and the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo)

Yellow Rose GSPs

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"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." --Plato

"..It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds.." --Samuel Adams
Klynn7User is Offline
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09/01/2009 2:43 PM  
Good to know ladies! Randi is at that point where she comes sometimes, but not always. she'll just sit and stare at me, then sit down ( the little brat!!). So, what is this check cord? Remember, I'm new not only to the GSP world, but the trained dog world too.

-Korbey

Randi
Stella

"We long for an affection altogether ignorant of our faults. Heaven has accorded this to us in the uncritical canine attachment." -George Eliot

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Texas BelleUser is Offline
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09/01/2009 3:02 PM  

A check cord is a long leash, 15 to 30 feet long.  I use a perma tak check cord because it does not hurt your hands and they do not get tangled in the brush.  Here is a link.

www.permatack.com/new_page_3.htm

I got the bright orange which shows up well.  They are a little pricey, but they last forever.  I tie a knot in the end so they do not slip through my hands.  The dog can drag the CC and then when you need to you can grab it and reinforce the command.  You can get other types of check cords that are made from rope as well.  Check at your local pet store or an outfitters like Cabela's usually carries CC too.  Or order online from the link above or Lion Country or Gun Dog Supply.


Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo) and the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo)

Yellow Rose GSPs

hit-fri DSC_0203 DSC_0006DSC_0044

"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." --Plato

"..It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds.." --Samuel Adams
SplatUser is Offline
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09/01/2009 5:17 PM  
I have never used a check cord and my question was gonna be what is it and where do I get it, but that has been answered. The cc sounds like just what i need for our yard set up. I will now make sure I don't use the come command unless I know I can get him to come to me. Also no longer the I chase him...I will try and reverse it!

Thanx for the help!!!


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TessaGAUser is Offline
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09/02/2009 8:35 AM  
A check cord is your best friend! I don't know what I'd do without it. Best training tool in my opinion.

9 weeks is pretty young but if you feel the pup clearly understands what "come" means, I'd start using a check cord or light line and

a) reel the puppy in if he doesn't come on his own
b) only give the command once - do not repeat
c) never give the command unless you are willing and able to enforce it (via check cord), be it at home or in the field
d) lots of praise if puppy comes
e) at this stage, I always use treats, but very small ones. If you dog is very food-driven, kibble will do (actually, part of Tessa's daily food allowance was given to her in training). My dog trainer recommends to reward the puppy with THREE small morsels (given 1-2-3) for the recall. Not one, not four, but three. It's a magic number and believe me it works. It will set this command apart from all the others, as it should, because it is the most important one and the hardest to get down reliably. The puppy will need to feel that when it comes, it hits the jackpot. So whereas you give one treat for a nice sit, it gets three treats for a good recall.

Treats will be phased out later on in training. I phased out Tessa's at 6 months old. She is now 14 months and I just started her on the e-collar - another great training tool but I still go back to the good old check cord for a lot of my training.

To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
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Klynn7User is Offline
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09/02/2009 10:18 AM  
I just bought one! This will be great! Since we live in the city we don't have a field to train in. But there is a good sized park right by the house I can use where there aren't normally people. Thanks for the tip! Any other training tools you would recommend would be great!

-Korbey

Randi
Stella

"We long for an affection altogether ignorant of our faults. Heaven has accorded this to us in the uncritical canine attachment." -George Eliot

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SplatUser is Offline
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09/02/2009 11:00 AM  
I am not sure if I am quite ready to teach the "come" being he is only 9 weeks, but I know I will need to start soon.

This week I will go out looking for the check cord, but if I can't find one I will order online.

Great tips keep 'em coming...I like the 3 treat reward for come! Right now I have just been using kibble pieces for treats, he didn't like the treats I bought any way and I figure the kibble is healthier.


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TessaGAUser is Offline
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09/02/2009 11:28 AM  
Kibble is good, easy to carry, nice small bits. Re 3-treat reward, make sure you give each one individually, not all together for one gulp, so the dog knows it got three. But still in pretty quick succession.

To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
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Texas BelleUser is Offline
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09/02/2009 12:10 PM  

I make my own training treats and thought I would share a fairly easy recipe that makes allot with you guys.  I like to train with high value treats that are not something my dogs get every day.  I accidentally discovered that my gang goes nuts over ripe bananas.  So, when I saw this recipe I had to try it.  So far it has been a huge success.

www.shorthairs.net/GSPForum/tabid/220/forumid/2/postid/42810/view/topic/Default.aspx

I store these in freezer and get out what I need and microwave on defrost for 20 seconds.  They keep for a long time.  When I cut them up I usually cut them in 1/2 inch squares, but I break off smaller bits for the reward.  The do well in pockets and do not crumble.  The are also low fat and good for the dogs.

Another good recipe is Moc's Liver Treats (www.workingdogs.com/doc0179.htm).  I use chicken livers because Belle is allergic to beef and it works just as good.  I also use olive oil.  I have added in special ingredients from time to time like molasses, peanut butter, ripe bananas, etc.  This one is also easy and the dogs like it to.  The squares are a bit more crumbly, but not bad.

I only use these for training so they stay special for the dogs and are a big reward. 


Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo) and the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo)

Yellow Rose GSPs

hit-fri DSC_0203 DSC_0006DSC_0044

"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." --Plato

"..It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds.." --Samuel Adams
SplatUser is Offline
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09/02/2009 5:25 PM  
I might have to try some of these recipes, thanx!


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MelBUser is Offline

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09/02/2009 7:05 PM  
I don't formally teach the come command until they've mastered sit, down, stay and walking on a loose leash. What I do do, is when I say their name and they come to me on their own I treat and make a big deal out of it, when they are coming to me on their own with just their name being said then I begin to add the come command behind their name and again make a big party out of it. Usually it's not too long before they learn when they hear their name to look and when the come command follows they are already in motion.
snipsUser is Offline
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09/02/2009 9:24 PM  

I would suggest letting this little guy grow up a bit before going crazy with obedience.  It is like training a yr old baby  Let him have fun, teach him some manners, then at 5-7 mo start with more formal but fun obedience training.  It is that long before you can get much in positive results on attention.


brenda
SplatUser is Offline
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09/03/2009 6:44 AM  
I am not gonna push his training...I just wanted to make sure that while I am letting him play in the yard if I ask anything of him in fun I am not ruining a command for later on...I like the idea of the check cord while playing in the yard cuz if he goes off some where that is a big no no then I can get him back with out causing the chase game...

We live on 6 acres of horse property, most fencing is post and wire fence but some up front is just staked with tape fencing and he can get into those pastures. If the horses are out in those I don't want him getting in there cuz the horses might charge and stomp him, so it is very important that right now he learns to stay out of there, whether it is a formal command or not and I have to be able to get him out if he does go in...


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TessaGAUser is Offline
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09/03/2009 8:04 AM  
I second what Brenda said, pups need to be pups, at the same time though, like children, puppies are sponges and learn superfast, and what they learn during the first 16 weeks they will retain forever. For this reason, and because it is so easy to teach a pup by making things fun (so that the pup doesn't even know it is being "trained"), I start my dogs on obedience from the get-go. Of course, you gotta keep any "sessions" brief (a few minutes), make sure you stop before the dog becomes bored, and always end it on a positive note. Be consistent, fair, and don't expect perfection immediately.

To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
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SplatUser is Offline
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09/03/2009 9:00 AM  
I totally understand the fun part...and also the short attention...I really have not done any training sessions at all...the sit has been taught cuz he does that to get fed his food at feeding times, so that 3 seconds might be the most training session I have done...we have put the leash on 2 times for about maybe 5 minutes just so he can get used to not chewing it and the feel...

I only asked about teaching come because I was having to call him out of the pasture for his safety and he was already picking up the bad habbit of running from me...which he picked up fast cuz he is learning like a sponge, so I just wanted to know how to fix him running away from me for his safety...which I think right now the check cord will be good cuz if I do have to call him I can and if he doesn't come I can reel him in so he isn't running from me...

We do have tons of play time...he already loves going outside and waiting for the bus to bring the boys home cuz that means play time...he also likes our afternoon yard walks to explore...and of course play fetch (the retrieve isn't quite happening) but I just like throwing for him so he can run to go get the toy...the more running the more tired he is when it is bed time, LOL!


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TessaGAUser is Offline
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09/03/2009 9:35 AM  

he was already picking up the bad habbit of running from me...which he picked up fast cuz he is learning like a sponge

That's the thing, they pick up the bad along with the good! Looks like you're on the right track.

Because we don't have a yard much less a fenced one, Tessa lived her first few months on the check cord. It worked out great for us - it gave her enough room to roam, and when I let her drag it, it was still easy to catch her by stepping on the cord before she got away too far.

It didn't slow her down a bit:

Make sure you get a tangle-free one.

 


To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
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